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SARS-CoV-2 Origins - Round Table w/ Charles Rixey and Jonathan Couey

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Rounding the Earth podcast.

Rounding the Earth is a popular newsletter series published on Substack written by applied statistician and educator Matthew Crawford. Topics of discussion range from critical analysis of conventional wisdom to Bitcoin and everything in between, and of course, more recently, the COVID-19 pandemic. Our goal is a careful examination of important topics and perspectives shaping the world that too few people talk about, though more and more are each day. Subscribe to Rounding the Earth on Substack, Rumble, and YouTube to join a burgeoning research community and to help us unflatten the Earth. My name is Liam Sturgess, I’m a musician, music producer, and writer slash editor coming at you live from Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, and I will be your host for today. But of course, it’s not just me, please allow me to introduce the author of Rounding the Earth and my co-host for the podcast, Matthew Crawford.

Good afternoon, Matthew. Hey Liam, how are you? Hey, I’m doing pretty well. Thank you. Yeah, I’m looking forward. I believe this is our first repeat guest that we’re having, and I’m getting more and more curious about our topic for the day as I listen to this individual, Jonathan Couey, on his own stream, GigaOM Biological. I think I’m finally understanding some of the science myself that I wasn’t getting until now. Yeah, and it’s a whole lot.

For anybody watching today, I just want to say everybody who has gone down the rabbit hole, if you want to call it that, it’s a very serious research topic, but everybody who has followed as much evidence as they could has had a difficult time putting it all together because it is such a huge and broad amount of information that covers many branches of biology. So it’s not simple for anyone. Nobody should think it’s simple. We’re going to do the best we can to corner perhaps two or three topics and see how well we can make them plain, but it’s not an easy job. And I’ve been talking with Jonathan a little bit about ways to possibly make it simpler going forward, but it’s a lot of work. Indeed. Well, let’s bring on the man himself and see if he can help us figure this out.

Welcome, Jay. Hello. Welcome. Thank you. Goodness sakes. I can’t believe I’m the first double guy here. I feel very honored. Anyway, let’s get started. You didn’t even fire me up about what we were going to talk about, so this is going to be kind of interesting shooting from the hip here. Well, I think that I saw Charles trying to get into the room. He may be having internet problems. So hopefully there will be four of us here soon. But what I think that we may want to do today is kind of create a little bit of a timeline as in let’s go back in history. Let’s see if we can lay a foundation like what happened that relates to the potential origin story, a potential coherent story as it all fits together, which I think we have a lot of pieces of, but I think there are more pieces to come. But let’s go back pre 2000. And I want to ask you, Jonathan, what is the most important information that you know, either from your own background as a biologist or from what you’ve studied during the pandemic that is likely to be part of the origin story as the truth would be revealed?

I really like how you chose to phrase that question, because I think that that that’s been my my pitch for a long time is that we have to go pre pandemic and look at the biology from a pre pandemic perspective before we can really start to put into context what’s incongruent about what they’ve currently said and what we’ve been currently told about what’s happened. So pre pandemic, there are a couple of authorities in the medical field which have come out came out very early. One character that’s virtually disappeared from the narrative is Wolfgang Wodarg from Germany. Another one is Knut Witkowski, a guy from Rockefeller University in New York City. Both of these guys spoke up very early in the pandemic about a phenomenon where pneumonia like illness PLI and influenza like illness ILI were a group of designators for elderly respiratory disease with a certain suite of symptoms and often without a test needed. These would be assigned to either influenza or an unknown coronavirus and so this was just a, let’s say a standard way of explaining a certain amount of people dying every year all around the world and the seasonality of it.

And so the first thing to understand is that they have told us very specifically that before 2020 no one was dying of a coronavirus and in fact they’ve made statements that are dubious in the media in the last year and a half about how rhino viruses are actually the primary source of the common cold when before 2020 you can find medical textbooks and common brochures and and even novels saying that the common cold is actually coronaviruses and so it’s very strange inversion there. So if you start there and you say that before 2020 there was a certain amount of people every year and it was significant it was between 25 and 30 percent of all respiratory disease and elderly people was thought to be unknown coronaviruses and then after 2020 those deaths were all gone and you also know that influenza was all gone and many people said it was viral replacement or competition or all this other stuff but what we needed to see was all cause mortality rate and that’s the other thing pre-pandemic that none of us really understand.

Before the pandemic in America every year 2.8 million people were expected to die plus or minus 200,000 so that number should have been the starting point of describing the pandemic and its impact on our societies from the very beginning but instead every graph on the news started with zero and went to some positive number of covid cases or covid deaths and so if you start pre-2020 and think about the origins the first thing to understand is that before 2020 there were coronaviruses there wasn’t a lot we could do about them they were an accepted fact one of the many ways that elderly people could could enter the grave it was just normal it wasn’t a wasn’t a world health problem.

Oh Jonathan can I can I stop you here? Sure. Two things one is is I wanted to start even further back like pre-2000 that was actually my intention but but I like the the the background that you’ve laid down and I do want to I want to point out that we’re talking about an anomaly here this viral interference I’m going to stop there and say it’s important to recognize the number of anomalies that have been presented that we’re supposed to swallow that are part of the the you know authorities explanation for what has happened that’s one of them viral interference we’ve never seen that before right why why wasn’t it that other rhino virus, viruses, coronaviruses, influenza competing for for what like the same entry point into the body you know it people go well I wasn’t sick with this and that at the same time well if your body temperature already started heating up you probably weren’t getting sick with a second thing so that’s not the way to think about it right the way to think about it is it did your body’s reaction to this block out next week’s infection or something like that but that’s one another anomaly that we’ve seen is the explanation for Omicron and that would be going back to the year 2000 so that kind of peels off from what I just said in the sense that before the year of the pandemic there were coronaviruses and another thing to understand is that before they discovered SARS in 2002 there were SARS viruses in nature by their own observations around the places where they have sampled these viruses those people have serial prevalence which means that the viruses are always jumping and so before the pandemic before the year 2000 before we found these SARS viruses which were useful in the laboratory they were there and they were jumping into people people were being infected it was moving through and they’re more prevalent in the places where they are endemic like in China or Asia versus North America they’re different coronaviruses in North America than in Asia and those viruses exchange as people move and this has always been happening this is not a new phenomenon this has always been happening and so they tried and they tried very hard to erase this history and to make you believe that essentially you don’t have any coronaviruses that bother you very much until now and now there’s one that Moderna and Pfizer can protect you from and these tests can accurately diagnose the presence of and these are all based on the supposition that none of this other stuff exists or happened and I think that’s what compounds the the narrative for them is that these tests then can’t be as as specific as they say they are because one of the reasons why they can be in their imagination so specific is that they don’t acknowledge the background level of coronavirus now accurately track…

Quick point of clarification we have coronaviruses and then a subclass which we refer to as SARS coronaviruses is that accurate?

It’s accurate as far as as far as I can tell from their genetic data but the important point to make here pretty early and this is from a biological and evolutionary perspective as well is that pre year 2000 pre the discovery of SARS viruses it’s important to understand that the immune system would have taken a strategy against RNA using viruses the the the immune system sorry I hadn’t been prepared for this but this is something that’s been in my head for a while the immune system is not going to make a response to coronaviruses with red hats and separate from coronaviruses with blue hats with flavor viruses but bring green hats and flu viruses with purple hats it’s going to say what’s in common with all those what’s in common with those is they need to have double-stranded RNA in order to copy themselves and they need a special enzyme to copy double-stranded RNA that we don’t have two very important indicators of a general RNA dependent virus infection and so Zev Zelenko is one of these guys who’s been saying from the very beginning that we have zinc finger proteins which detect those two things and so if you if you enable zinc finger proteins by making sure you’re not short of zinc most of these viruses will be eliminated before they do any meaningful infection because the RNA dependent RNA polymerase and double-stranded RNA are both shared tight cues that are cross any variant cross even different varieties of viruses as long as they’re trapped in the RNA genome.

Okay so I’m going to go back to Omicron for just a moment but then I want to talk about the cloud the quasi species storm because this is something that took me a number of months to really gain a toehold in my mind as I was researching so many different things but with Omicron here was here’s another anomaly I just want to I want to point out the anomalies as we go so that people understand what to think about that that you know kind of punches a hole in the official explanations what we’re we’re told that Omicron likely came from one AIDS patient where the virus in that one AIDS patient underwent like 30 40 you know 50 mutations like just in the spike protein alone but important mutations and that’s not really the way that we’ve seen anything happen before we’ve never heard heard of hey we’ve got this one virus that’s going around anytime it gets into one particular patient it can just you know go explode in some direction evolutionarily that would completely alter the way medicine affects it now so that we you know it seems like it gives them a convenient excuse for continuing to reformulate vaccines in particular but I’ll stop there for a moment before we start talking about the quasi-species swarm and let’s allow Charles Rixey to introduce himself.

Hey Charles! All right, well, hello. Tell us about yourself and what’s going on with you oh geez well so at the moment my level is a little ad hoc because I’m actually in Florida at Disney World with my in-laws and we’re actually moving in with them after we finish here because we just sold our house in Texas and we sold that because I didn’t want to stop doing what I’ve been doing for the last two years which is investigating the origin of the pandemic so as it stands right now my studio is a little limited it’s not as nice as my office but I’m knee-deep into the adventure and you’re like you’re also happening just since I’ve been on vacation here so I’m now here to talk about it.

Well thanks for taking a little time outside of your vacation to join us so we got started you know before you came we laid a little groundwork for like pre-2000 and you know in a little bit up to 2020 discussing what had gone on in the world up to that point in time one thing that I know was an impediment for me for understanding all this is the idea of the quasi-species swarm and this sounds like science fiction you know it’s a hard concept to grasp and I’ve been in meetings where when I brought it up people in the meeting sort of chuckled like you know like what are you talking about and and here’s the explanation or I’m gonna try to do this you don’t just get one virus in you that is all genetically the same it’s not like you know billions and billions of copies of the precisely same you know 30,000 nucleotide sequence you know what among those you know millions or billions or whatever virions that get into you there is a wide variety right I mean and this starts to make sense when you realize that that each new one kind of you know is a little bit different than the previous one because of single nucleotide polymorphisms that pop up here and there you know maybe maybe a new one has two that are different than the last one but there’s you know so much replication that goes on not only is that true but it’s also true that over the years these swarms that go around they’ve met some other virus some some coronavirus that maybe was circulating in India met up with some coronavirus that was circulating in Vietnam and when that cloud got together in one person it’s not like it ever separated you know it’s got you know there’s no reason why these and these would not get along in a cloud together any you know any worse than they did just on their own and so I think that the cloud has picked up all sorts of different coronaviruses from around the world and…

Ralph Baric says that that up to 25% of coronavirus particles in a co-infection are recombinant done yeah okay so Ralph Baric who studies this stuff as intensely as anyone in the world who may be one of the villains of the story but uh you know he thinks in terms of the quasi-species swarm and he knows that they are interacting with each other too right it may be the two strands you know it’s not just uh a and b but they may they may you know fragments of them may get together and recombine the same way that happens with not the same way that happens with influenza that’s where they recombine along the same strand but you may have some you know recombination that happens during the replication process so you wind up with just this giant mixture you know really think of the human population right it may be that we that the quasi-species swarm is a good analogy for the human population where you have perhaps several races where you could identify people somewhat but not not like not completely or extremely perfectly you know according to certain phenotypical features but you can tell that there is genetic variation and you can tell that that there were lineages that that you have to go back and and they branch very far out they weren’t all from the same place so that’s the quasi-species swarm. Think the human population and think that’s what you breathe in and what goes all over your body.

So there’s really for me being the non-scientist the way that I learn it in the way that I explain to others is that well what I focus on is one that one of the things about the quasi-species is that there’s still barriers you can only recombine with something that’s close enough to you that it it’s able to mix it’s like it different breeds of dog for instance so there is a point at which you can know you can’t directly breed with something so far away that it’s not like you so and this is important because all of the types of different of coronaviruses that have a furan cleavage site I don’t know if we’ve talked about that yet but all of them that have that aspect have the barriers are too high for those viruses to recombine with the sarbacaviruses of which SARS-CoV-2 is the primary member and that’s the main thing that dr quay when he was testifying before congress he’s been saying that for a year and a half and it’s one of the most basic concepts I’ve not heard any scientists even address it much less be able to disprove that okay so it’s like having this this whole population several lineages they can mix to a degree but there may be barriers to the mixing perhaps you can think of it as having religious differences.

I think it’s even more significant than that though because the molecular biological steps that we understand that would be required to put a 12 or 19 amino acid insert where it is is not the same as recombination and so that’s the thing that gallagher was saying very early on is that he doesn’t see a natural route to an insertion of that size so there are mechanisms by which recombination occur and genes can be exchanged because we understand that they have leader sequences and so okay but this is different so now that’s that’s a different question so now here’s what I’m going to say is um the analogy is you have this earth you know these humans on earth and then suddenly you identify that there’s this particular kind of human going around and you know what’s different about this human that’s going around that’s that’s uh doing a lot of damage and you realize huh this isn’t natural maybe it came from off planet maybe this maybe this alien popped in and this alien it’s replicating it’s part of the swarm but it’s it’s it’s got something different about it that you can identify it and you know that it wasn’t part of the original natural earth environment.

I mean the way that the quasi species exists as we know it for SARS-CoV-2 is that it it’s too far away from mers for instance to be able to pick it up from that route and based on the chemical structure and the fact that there’s the string is long enough there doesn’t appear to be a natural path it’s both too big and too different and it would have to be it’d have to come into it had to recombine it in a certain way and all have to come in together which I don’t know the chemistry but I trust the scientists when they say this much that it can’t it can’t happen all at once like that.

Can I make, can I make one more point about the swarm that maybe we’re not fully bringing in sure one of the things that you should definitely think of and maybe you know somebody will come and correct us but I think this is probably the best analogy or the best way to think about it is that you should think about the particular proteins that are advantageous to the coronavirus swarm in general as being what they added to the swarm because if there was a release which we believe and these genes all came out in a… in a… in an egg box and of the 12 eggs four of those eggs were magic like any coronavirus that had those eggs would be an exceptional coronavirus and infecting people those are the only genes you had to worry about getting released from the laboratory because when they go into the swarm these other crappy eggs no one’s going to use them they’re not going to go on and so if you think about it from how maybe Charles would think about it from the perspective of an incapacitating weapon you design a gene like a spike protein to be neurotoxic or design it to be immunogenic and then you introduce that into the swarm and now you’re really not tracking a virus you’re tracking this gene and if it’s toxic enough then you don’t even need to be infected you just need to be around somebody that’s shedding it so that your body reacts in that immunogenic way and now you have symptoms and it’s hard to track because again it’s being carried by the the swarm not by a particular virus and that particular virus illusion is very it’s very unhandy for understanding what’s going on.

Okay so… yeah I’m reformulating my my earth my earth analogy right now and uh and I I hit a wall uh because I got caught up in a tangent of what you were saying so let me try to collect my thoughts here okay so uh I I’m liking where we’re going with the analogy I I think that it’s going to help a lot of people begin to get this idea uh some new earthling was introduced to the earth’s population and they had several other features and they could intermix with some of the humans and that feature then gets passed around if it’s one that is advantageous to the human population to the groups that that have that so we have this you know alien insertion maybe uh maybe a synthetic human being added and they have brought something that if it is evolutionarily stable within the population um at least in the short term then it becomes a greater and greater proportion of the the swarm and then so there’s research and and um you guys may remember exactly where this came from in fact Jonathan I can’t recall you and I may have talked about this during uh sort of half year cycles during the pandemic one thing that happened in the literature is the cycle count needed to culture the virus kept going down by four every six months and I I don’t know if you guys remember this like alpha I can’t remember what the uh the cycle count threshold was maybe it was like 27 and then for um for gamma sorry for delta it was 23 and then for omicron it was 19 actually I think it was I think it was Wuhan strain alpha delta but and I can’t remember the exact numbers but I know that it was 16 times as much presence that you could test for and that makes me think that what we’re talking about is it’s a small part of the swarm but then it’s grown as a proportion of the swarm over time is that possible is that perhaps the way the model has worked okay I’ll send you these papers later now I I can’t remember who I was discussing this with I I couldn’t remember if it was Jonathan or somebody else so um…

I mean I get the idea, I get the idea the one reason why I don’t like to use animals or people is because it it it discards the fact that I got out of Robert Malone’s video in april which is that the vast majority or a good majority of viral particles are useless and so what you have is you’ve hijacked the machinery of the cell to produce viruses and you’ve produced lots of them but you produce them with lots of errors and omissions and incomplete packaging and whatever and so let’s say every every eight or so there’s one that’s perfect and every other one is somehow damaged and so you have to think about this as a as a almost like how animals in the in the ocean breed with like you know just releasing all these eggs into the ocean and releasing all this spermatozoa in the ocean and hoping that they meet the viral particle is making copies as fast as it can and it’s not really worried about errors because it knows it’s going to get a few right and the rest are going to not matter and so what’s different about this virus in my humble opinion is that in a normal coronavirus the virus would be not only would most of them be useless but they would also be they don’t wouldn’t be immunogenic but because they fooled around with this spike protein even the virus particles that would have been useless are still coded in a toxic spike protein which causes your immune system to react which can set the ace 2 system off balance well they’re going to be people who like this maybe those are NPCs but I think that really that’s that’s the trick to understand is that there that that that one little piece of information flipped the entire model in my head around when I heard Robert Malone say that because it really makes a difference in terms of how you think about how the immune system would have evolved to respond and if it was historically responding to a viral infection where the vast majority of the particles were non-infectious then it would have focused its immunity on other things than the physical particle whereas they’re arguing that we should make immunity to the physical particle and its coat which is absurd yeah so if you’ve got this human population it’s sort of like I’m working at at continents and going hey let’s create um let’s create a solution to australia and then just like punching a hole in the map like right in the middle of australia and not expecting for all these particles to just sort of move away from it a little bit but still be there and so you know if you go so specifically at one location you know the very center of australia you’re not going to get rid of australians you know they’re just going to kind of route around it they’re going to look down in this big hole and go I guess I’ll build my home over there but you know it seems silly to me to begin with that people swallowed this idea of hey let’s uh let’s target the spike protein um let’s have the body be a spike protein factory which is the poisonous part so far as we know the the extra poisonous part of the coronavirus and then um you know why didn’t we target something that was more universal to all the coronaviruses?

And I think this is where Charles should jump in because this is where a lot of his sort of research has brought together a lot of different threads.

Um, the short answer is they did the opposite of what they would almost always do in the past because a from an immunological perspective jay could tell you that you don’t want you don’t want partial epitope coverage in something that is because it’s not going to produce a a I forget what the the the wording is but that infection isn’t isn’t going to it won’t sterilizing immunity yeah it won’t it won’t provide that and was was interesting is that the diffuse proposal that was the eco health alliance uh tried to get approved but DARPA denied one of the reasons they denied it was because the what they were suggesting would not provide that full coverage of the gene of the genome and so it wouldn’t provide sterilizing immunity in bats and so instead what it would do is it would cause the virus to evolve but then they wouldn’t have any control over what direction that that evolution went so it could get better or it could get worse so there were some people at DARPA who were knowledgeable enough that when eco health alliance came along and said hey we want to do this new crazy thing and you know create a coronavirus because it’ll be a like a vaccine right that was that was the idea and DARPA was like no this is uh this is actually kind of crazy we know enough about this to say this is kind of crazy so no well and this is what I argued last fall is that DARPA denied that and DARPA is part of dod and that was very close not exactly the same as mRNA they were using a different uh different very closely related set of little technologies to to kind of spray and to get to get best to do they were using different nanoparticles but the bottom line is is that the dod three years or two years after denying something almost exactly the same was mandated for a hundred percent of the force to use that exact same thing so they’d already rejected it and then they were forced to do it anyway by the president with the direction of Anthony Fauci and to me that that was like to me that was enough justification to not do it to not mandate it anyway um and now we found even more evidence because not only oh go ahead go ahead so that’s one of the big lessons from the diffuse documents then one of the big lessons is hey the dod believed that something like these vaccines was a bad idea back in 2018 was this 2016 or 2018 2018 2018 okay that’s what I thought um yeah so so they thought it was a bad idea then and suddenly now they think it’s a good idea that’s very sketchy um there was something else in the literature that one of the two of you pointed out to me um I can’t remember who mentioned it first but Charles you you’ve come across research uh where in the past uh vaccinologists thought it was a very bad idea to include a furion cleavage site within the vaccine yes so that’s that’s another piece to this is that you know and what I did was I went through well more than 26 but the first 26 that I went through uh vaccine um prototypes and studies that that looked at them going back from 2004 all the way to 2019 and in every single case whether it was hiv vaccine or for flu or for one of the coronaviruses MERS or SARS they always would remove the furin cleavage site um and like they contemplated leaving it the same but certainly no vaccine that ever made it out to market ever had a furion cleavage site okay why is your cleavage site something that you’d want to leave out why is it sort of toxic on its own because well there’s actually a lot of reasons um what it does is it allows the virus or the spike to get into an infinitely greater range of cells it well not infinite but of the major cell types it can basically go almost anywhere in the body anywhere that you especially in some cases across the blood brain barrier and in fact in hypoxic conditions where oxygen is less than normal especially 90 or less the blood brain barrier becomes far more permeable by this spike protein because it has your cleavage site and as far as we know as far as I’ve been able to see that’s irrespective of whether or not it’s the vaccine spike or the spike itself um in a normal infection and maybe Jonathan can correct me on that but from what I’ve been able to tell it’s it’s the spike when it’s in the vaccine is actually more able to get into different tissues because there’s so much more of it all at once and it’s being transmitted throughout the bloodstream and then produced by your own body it’s just but actually I know that I don’t think can explain the next part better because it allows it to even after it’s been cleaved it allows it to continue to transmit through intracellular I know he can explain that better okay jonathan before you do that I’m going to throw this out this sounds like you’re giving people cars um except that that one group of people you give them the option of uh of a baby safety seat and the other group you don’t right like there’s a safety feature that you could incorporate by removing this urine cleavage site and they just didn’t do that and it’s really really important and there was no reason for them not to do that there was no reason that I’ve ever seen that outweighed the risks of leaving it in there which is why it had never been done or had never been left in there and as we’re talking about this I’m realizing didn’t they claim they had when they were talking about putting it you know into the the mRNA shots I I was under the impression that was the one thing that was different whether it was specifically the fury cleavage site or you know the way you’re describing it this sounds like what they told people was being taken out or at a minimum in lay terms it was being set up so that it wouldn’t cleave off and then go throughout the body well so kind of they what they did there were two main things or one main thing that they did to the virus which was they inserted two prolines at 986 and 97 within the spike protein which stabilized it and left the spike in its pre-fusion confirmation so and now that’s good in a way because it presents a different it presents your immune system differently however you don’t there’s so many other things that you could do and what that does is it basically there were so many other things they could do that they didn’t do and they did this instead and and yeah I really think he could explain this better than I could um but they always in fact I have on video the the director of vaccine development for pfizer back in 2014 sitting next to Ralph Baric saying we would never and if they were talking about a flu vaccine at the time but if they test their batches as their manufacturing if they found a batch of eggs a batch of virus they had developed a hearing cleavage site they would immediately destroy the entire batch because they do not want the hearing cleavage site to make it into their final product that’s bad enough that they would destroy the batch it’s not even that they don’t want it out it’s it’s that they don’t they don’t even want this around the same person and six years later did exactly the opposite of that and they’ve never explained that jonathan can you add to that so let me it’s going to be tough but I think I can I’m trying I was trying to remember everything in my head of what Charles was saying because I can if I can complement it correctly it’ll make more sense so think first of all that the spike protein is the toolbox or the or the multi-tool that the virus is using to enter your cells and Gallagher and and Garry the guys that that Charles and I reported on Charles drew attention to and the biology of it makes sense that they identified a common mechanism in glycoproteins of viruses from HIV to coronavirus that have this hydrophobic portion of their glycoprotein that is crucial for the fusion of the membranes wherever it happens in the endosome or on the cell membrane itself and so the story that they tell us is is that when the spike protein binds with its receptor binding domain on the ace 2 receptor then there’s another enzyme that comes along that’s also membrane bound and it cuts the spike protein that’s that tmp rss uh enzyme if it’s the ace 2 receptor here and then another enzyme comes along and cuts it so that the spike protein can change orientation and expose this hydrophobic tip or wherever it is that allows the fusion of the cell membrane with the viral membrane or the in the taking in of the cell this curds inside of the endosome whatever but it’s the change in confirmation that exposes the otherwise protected hydrophobic portion of the spike protein that’s the whole game that we’re playing here and so you could bind the the argument is is you can make enzyme or sorry antibodies that block the receptor binding domain of the spike protein to prevent it from binding to ace 2 but what we don’t understand and I think that this is a good way to to explain it is that the site where the the tmp rss cuts is a different site than the fear and cleavage site and so what you’re talking about is is that this binds and then it cuts and then it changes but what you have to remember is that if you cut the fear and cleavage site it’ll change too and so there’s two problems with your and cleavage site then what that means is that when the virus is produced and it’s in an endosome if there’s a fear and cleaving enzyme present in the endosome then the fear and cleavage site will be cut and the spike protein will be armed and ready to go when it’s released from the cell that’s very different than if it didn’t have a fear and cleavage site it would come out of the cell with this uncleaved and so that it would still need to find a receptor that it’s specific for whereas once it’s cut whatever it bumps into it can infect and that’s very different okay I’m going to try an origami analogy um essentially essentially you know we have this long nucleotide sequence but this thing this thing bunches up into this little I don’t know a little monster this little thing that that goes around your body this virion um and it may be like you know taking uh you know a piece of paper and folding it up into some sort of origami except it’s just it’s just kind of a ball but it’s a really complicated ball it’s actually a really well designed ball it would be like you know taking a year to make your origami just perfect however there’s this piece of it that if you if you didn’t have it from the very beginning if you just ripped off a corner of that original square it would fold differently and then it would behave differently in the body and there’s and and so if we rip off that one really important piece that furan cleavage site suddenly the behavior of the virus is going to be different so now when we’re talking about how we could deal with this this thing now we could have vaccines that that deal with it one way or another now that’s not the only way to deal with it though and this is where galaher’s research comes in so for example yes so we could deal with it with uh with small protein inhibitors or peptide inhibitors that keep you know your drumsticks right there that open and close state that keep it from happening even even if the origami was complete if even if the origami was complete um you could have these peptides glom onto the ball like instead of just ripping out the corner I could have instead said hey I’m going to take something from the outside and interfere with it and that will also stop the problem and people might think that oh well this is what an antibody does but it’s not the same thing because an antibody has all kinds of flags and things on it that cause your immune system to react to those flags whereas a small protein inhibitor is just something that has very high electrostatic homology with the target and it’s hydrophobic right so it’s even easier as a target and then you just inhibit all the viruses that are present in your nose or wherever you put that that protein yeah and they had that in 2003 is that correct Charles when they were first doing this is where this is where the the hiv links really come in because if you’re in cleavage site it can occurs in a whole bunch of different viruses and they have slightly different you know construction but there’s also if you’re in cleavage site in hiv that’s and that motif is very particular but there’s there’s also inserts which we haven’t gotten to yet and there’s another similarity between hiv and the coronaviruses that most people don’t know about which is the fusion peptide and the flu hiv sars rsv all those different viruses are have the same basic fusion peptide structure and they’re called class one fusion peptides and well yeah repeat that again the viruses had this classic peptide structure there’s the fusion peptide controls a different part of this of the process of the virus getting into the cell because it’s a very there’s a lot of different steps the fusion peptide is one particular one and it just so happens that the hiv one is very similar to the sars one and SARS-CoV-2 it’s it remains that way and so you can actually use depending upon well based on this homology between them in 2003 bill gowher and his apprentice Robert Garry who’s important because Robert Garry is one of the five authors of the proximal origin SARS-CoV-2 so this is during the entire time that they were discussing this in early february of 2020 one of the five was one of the inventors of this process and one of the first fda approved medications for so he they knew they were aware of this it’s also important that Robert Garry was the most vocally against the idea of a natural origin whenever they were talking in private and then over the time that’s come out that we’ve seen all their different discussions but they hypothesized in 2003 that that an fusion inhibitor it worked against HIV could also work against sars and some work was done on this almost all of which was in China interestingly enough China has not really done any coronavirus vaccine research for the last 20 years they’ve almost entirely focused on fusion inhibitors and in 2019 China announced they discovered a fusion inhibitor that worked for MERS and SARS and in 2020 early 2020 two seconds yeah go ahead make sure you make sure you guys understand that what Charles is describing is essentially a biological phenomenon about viruses that they would rather us not understand that the that the swiss army knife and the the the the way that this hydrophobic domain is protected during regular viral movement and opened by cleavage is something that almost all viruses use because they need to have this hydrophobic region that can and that that apparently is highly conserved because it’s very effective at causing membrane fusion so this highly accurate mechanism is employed by lots of viruses and they knew it already back in the year 2000 okay so 2019 um this is an interesting year and you’re saying China uh came out with fusion inhibitors now this was this was research going on prior in the US is this also at Wuhan and was this also u.s funded research I think at the same time they were testing remdesivir they were also testing fusion inhibitors in China that’s interesting now I think it was february 2020 was the letter out of China to one of the journals maybe I can’t remember which one but I think it was february 4th they said hey we’ve tested um chloroquine and remdesivir and they showed to be great in vitro uh viral inhibitors did they mention in that letter the and and maybe I just wasn’t looking for it maybe I wasn’t aware of what to be looking for at the time or did they just not mention it publicly China mentioned it they did China did mention it several times in fact in papers written by Shi Zhengli along with shibo jiang who was he and bill gowher are the pioneers of this stuff back into the 90s and shibo jiang moved back to China and for the last decade is all he’s done is work with fusion inhibitors and he had at least three or four papers in the month of february he had written and published about this technology and in fact in fact later in march he he and shi zhengling announced that they discovered that one of their previously developed inhibitors also worked for SARS-CoV-2 so is it possible that China has been treating their population with these fusion inhibitors the whole time and we just haven’t been told yes I think only their hollywood stars yeah because because it’s interesting that now apparently there is a big SARS-CoV-2 infection problem there and I’m not sure what to make of that well let me do things that I learned today liam which is really cool number one is that there is no mandatory vaccine in China only mandatory testing every day and they do test everyone every day in order to recharge the app on your phone some teenagers have learned how to use a screenshot capture in order to get into raves and stuff in case it gets closed down they don’t get recorded but that will soon be done um I learned this from via via uh somebody who’s in China and recently described it but everybody needs to be tested that’s real but there is no mandatory vaccine and the vaccine gives you no benefit on the on the on the surveillance app interesting that is interesting because in our discussions we’re often referencing like you just said today the social credit system that’s being used intensely in China in the covid context to shut people out of their bank accounts and you’re telling me that’s not related to the shots it’s only related to if you are considered currently an active carrier of the virus it’s 100 sure I learned that this morning I learned that this morning from a very reliable source let me just say it like that interesting that throws a big curveball into things hell yeah it does so I’m going to throw this in because it’s related but um my my model of of China is that we have been constantly lied to in the west about sort of what the west relationship with China is my belief has always been that um that they the u.s and China have sort of a common underlying corporate background and that neither nation is is independent as it would as the popular you know I I would call it facade is and um and that very often China has been used as a laboratory for authoritarianism for instance all the cameras on the streets if you go back you know 20 years when I don’t remember how many years but like you know uh cameras on the streets everywhere well that was done in China first but now if you count the cameras that are in the cities and on the streets or whatever um per person it’s about the same number now in the u.s as it is in China um and and that was something that I think people in the u.s would have been uh uh would have rejected outright had it had it started uh here in the u.s but you know maybe uh what’s going on is that China is the uh is the test case for these these phone apps and they’re seeing how people hack around them and whatnot but they’re they’re using every day testing that’s just nonsense but matthew but matthew it is vital to to reiterate not the shots it’s it’s the testing it’s not the shots here’s the other thing you need to know they have it down to the neighborhood so you have to use your phone to pass in and out of your neighborhood not even your town but your neighborhood so you have to have a green one and then the crazy thing is the reason why it’s all crashing is because the infrastructure that feeds back the test sometimes in some remote places takes as long as four or five days to update and so then it’s not really real time and people are just getting screwed by that so it’s it’s impressive what’s happening over there it’s in what I’ll say is that in Wuhan the as an example because Wuhan is 11 million people it’s the same size as Los Angeles and it’s broken up into 7200 different neighborhoods and those neighborhoods are then they fall under 171 sub districts and then those sub districts are combined into 13 districts and then you have the city of Wuhan itself so all the way down there’s levels and sub levels of organization and even though their their average take-home pay is like a thousand dollars a month in this area they are world leading and Wuhan happened to be one of the cities that was a test bed for their their face recognition software in their police systems and so what’s interesting is that when we talk about like the beginning of the outbreak people and we talk about the the world health organization report and the terrible maps and the set and the mystery behind the first 174 cases the reality is is that at any time they can go back and look at the geolocation they can track all of this for any human being they probably knew within 24 hours if they didn’t know already who patient zero was and they could have given us exquisite information and we can know exactly where this virus came from except the only reason that we don’t is probably because they just don’t want us to know where it came from because it’s okay for the lab so it’s they don’t have this is insane allow me to throw out a hypothesis that the real reason for the release of SARS-CoV-2 was to see if this level of totalitarian networking could be the difference between whether or not a population had infection sweep through or not could you control the masses well enough to control disease is that plausible I would say it’s possible but they they could have a thousand reasons but that no no I that was different than it could be but I I yeah that that level of following around with with uh cameras and technology that they could identify absolutely the you know when and where pathogens might jump between one human being and another that alone is is very interesting and revealing I think I’m just gonna have to let that bounce around in my head a bit um but you know maybe we can go on from here yeah and and can I just add I’m starting to wonder for real if even the discussion of trying to argue poorly in favor of natural origin and then the other side being lab leak I wonder if that whole discussion is a diversion I like I wonder if that and I think jay either you said it or you said something that made me think it in one of your streams recently I think your most recent one really clicked for me that it’s not actually at all the right question as to whether it came from a lab because that argument relies on fundamental misunderstandings of virology and it seems like occupying ourselves with trying to and it’s it’s very useful information but it almost feels like it was sort of perhaps foreseen that we would get caught up in this discussion and not be pursuing a better understanding of where the actual threat is or how our immune system actually works like it feels like those are things I haven’t turned my attention to at all and thank goodness for your stream because you you know can you speak to that like narratively speaking and…

Well, if I do just just prepare yourself. I’m gonna go way out. um This is what I was gonna teach over the next month or so I’ll see if I can put it out in two minutes right now but looking at the population pyramids around the world and thinking about population as a problem with a solution or as a problem with with opportunities I’ve started to come to a pretty dark idea of what’s going on and and just imagine this for one second: there are seven billion people or nine billion people on the planet, does anybody know what the number is right now it’s actually? It’s actually just eight billion. Okay so there’s eight billion people on the planet and most people would agree from Ted Turner down to us that this might be the highest number of people that will ever be on the pop… maybe it’ll be 10 before it plateaus and then goes back down. From a long-term transhumanist biological perspective this is the last time that there will ever be this level of genetic diversity available for sampling on the planet. Forever after this we will have a smaller population that never expresses this much diversity or this much genetic data which would ultimately be fed into an AI that could figure out how the genome works, so if you were going to be the transhumanist monsters that these people say they are and get the population back down to 500 000 people you better not miss this opportunity to make a once in a millennia generation possibly ever library of the potential of the human genome and so now what is China doing? They’re sampling people every day what if they’re just making a a giant AI database of how these people’s genes change over their lifetime while they have them and America knows that that’s what they’re doing and so they need to implement the same system before they lose this opportunity as well. How’s that for a nice science fiction book?

I think it’s very possible I think that it’s a mistaken notion I think that what they believe they can do with this information and what they believe they can derive from this information is actually nonsensical but I see this across the board with the elite technologists um they seem to have this fallacy you know we can know what people are going to do you can upload your consciousness and and it’s it’s as if they don’t it’s as if they don’t understand that there is state dependence that there is environment dependence to our consciousness if if each of us was in a different environment you know a more free country a less free country our actions would be different no matter you know invariant genetics different environments you get different responses but those responses do build over time you know you do come up with habits and when you move a person after habits are built um that’s not the same thing as if they’ve grown up on that other continent right um and so but to your point to your point if you want to monitor these changes and these interactions with your genes and the environment epigenetic changes you need to sample over time so yeah instituting a regular system of needing to submit to a test could essentially be turned into an infrastructure which can monitor the epigenetics of everybody on the planet over time. I’m not trying to get overly conspiratorial.

I’m just trying to say that if you want to think about what’s going on here and realize that China hasn’t even hasn’t even mandated a vaccine but they mandated the test a long time ago yeah you know let’s I think we should have like another entire show on this thread this may be one that I want to yeah like a few rows into um but uh let’s get back to to our more mainline discussion oh yeah that question is really easy so the the question that you have up there right now this is kind of the point of these fusion inhibitors is that that even Robert Malone explained it once that if antibodies for example would work where you could fly over a a small village spray a coronavirus down give all the people that are going to go into that place the antibodies that protect them and then go into the village when everybody’s incapacitated do what you need to do and get out and then you have no trace well the best way to do it is if you could do it mucosal wise so you could inhale the protein and protect yourself and your mucosal layers from infection and then go in and the incapacitating agent whether it was a virus or anything else would be inhibited by the protein that you had on board yeah that’s exactly that’s exactly the delivery mechanism that shibo jiang and robert gallagher or bill gallagher they both recommended was intranasal or aerosolized spray because it goes right where it needs to where the where the the virus is going to be populated the most it’s right at the proper interface for a respiratory virus and I’ll give you one more thing that I just recently discovered is that in addition to the fusion inhibitors that way in december 2019 a paper was submitted that had a vaccine based on targeting the fusion… the fusion peptide one of the people who was on that paper was michael warroby so they were actually they were actually trying to develop a vaccine targeting the fusion peptide for HIV as I recall and that paper wasn’t published until august of 2020 but it was it was sent forward on december 10th 2019 so the the fact that this idea of fusion inhibitors or fusion peptide would not be at the forefront of their mind is insane they all knew about this and the real question is why did China put so much effort and energy into this which I believe is because it would be a great antidote for a virus that was coming out and then b why did we ignore it here in the united states because even today fauci um a couple like in may fauci doled out 577 million dollars to nine different research centers I think six of which were tied to proximal origin authors and to work on antivirals but they have not worked on this type of antiviral because because peptide inhibitors are an antiviral so all of this he is not only is he refusing to investigate long covid with grant funds but they have completely ignored this obvious target it’s it’s stable in on the stable half of the spike protein like none of this makes sense in the context of the virus that we’re fighting today no this is just part of this totalitarian story of antiviral nihilism like they acted like there’s nothing we can give you before you go to the hospital early on exactly yeah but but in the meantime they were working on uh a different type of antiviral um perhaps we’ll be pushing away the competition in order to have a justification for the spending on the research I that would be a sick I mean I’m sure that was part of it but that would be sick if that was the only like to me yeah it’s not the only but it scares me what scares me is that I cannot perceive of a logical reason where you would not at least throw money when you’re throwing all this money at this problem why will you throw zero money at a solution that is proven because now even now they’ve already shown that the same fusion inhibitor that was proposed that they discovered in 2019 doesn’t just work on all all coronaviruses it also works against hiv 1 and hiv 2 and the simian immunodeficiency virus we’re talking about something that works against all hiv all coronaviruses and the United States, the NIAID which this is their sole mission in life any reason for existence they are putting zero money into something has already been proven as a pan coronavirus inhibitor and what are we working on right now a pan coronavirus vaccine why are we not you put zero dollars they are doing this this peptide fusion, small protein fusion inhibitor research still like… Exactly. Yeah, okay um just to point out really quick remember I said that that that China is not mandating the vaccine but also remember that Pfizer has a gigantic, I mean gigantic footprint in China and they have not rolled out a single mRNA shot there. Their best product ever, rolled out in the entire Western world, and where they have a huge footprint in China, they’re just not rolling it out at all they don’t need it they don’t it’s not beneficial for them you have to think very carefully about why they’re already only pushing Paxlovid over there and and what this says about the campaign that’s still ongoing here.

So the fact that I can I learned from um actually Jill Malone the other day is that there are 81 mRNA vaccines of different types currently in testing, this is this is a type of vaccine that did not exist before 2020 um or I’ll call it quasi vaccine or whatever you might want to call it um it it had not worked you know it did not from the initial concept from the from Robert Malone’s you know initial you know uh proof of step step one from all of that you know 30 years you didn’t have a workable product and then suddenly suddenly there’s this arrogance where they they believe they can tell the world sure we can just you know spit these out we’ve spit out 81 in a little over two years since the very first one which happened to be at the very same moment uh people hear the story I actually I want to share this story because it’s one of the anomalies this will be our fifth anomaly for the day we were told that the moment the the whole genome was sequenced for SARS-CoV-2 that it was handed off to one of these big pharmaceutical companies and that that weekend in a matter of hours they already had the design for the vaccine now people hear this story and I’ve asked people uh including doctors scientists people in the know I’ve asked people which company was that and people go wait was that Pfizer or Moderna anybody here know? Yes it was Pfizer, well it was it was Moderna. Okay you’re correct it was both yeah Moderna well and the vrc the vaccine research center run by not amazing we did this over the weekend it’s never worked before but we just invented this over the weekend that story came out of both companies and I think that they thought they could get away with telling the story because no one would realize that it was two stories and not one one story sounds like an amazing moment two stories you go wait a minute is that really coincidence did did both my neighbors really win the lottery this weekend you know it it’s interesting well and both of them both of them also retained the furine cleavage site when that had not been like when I was antithetical wow both of them thought to do the same thing that everyone had said don’t do right independently as they invented the vaccines over a weekend. Yep, that’s amazing I don’t know who is willing to believe that at this moment but that’s crazy I mean that is that is off the cliff crazy. Okay, now on the China issue so Jay you just mentioned that China has not rolled out an mRNA uh shot despite Pfizer having a big footprint and that reminded me that I I’m a wikipedia contributor in addition to campfire wiki and now wiki spooks actually believe it or not but um it it recalled something I had uh I had contributed to wikipedia which was on the COVID-19 vaccine clinical research page um which surprisingly has not been taken down because it’s true but I found that hong kong is in fact using both the Comirnati aka Pfizer BioNTech version and the Fosun BioNTech mRNA shot those are both the same thing um and they’re both being offered in hong kong now hong kong this may be the distinction is still technically a special administrative region of China as far as I understand but that got me thinking whoa whoa whoa whoa could it be the case that only these special administrative regions are receiving mRNA options and it is mainland China that’s thus far not been offering them or were you mistaken uh I would say that it’s pro… it’s most likely that they want to use them as a test bed yeah because they don’t they don’t want to try it with everyone else I know that they they’ve done similar things with the Uyghurs in uh in Xinjiang province and in tibet well so it wouldn’t surprise me at all if if they were basically allowing this vaccine to be used kind of as a as an experiment that they did not want to try with the rest of the population.

Yeah very interesting um and just while I have while I have your guys attention I’m very happy to announce we’ve received our first Rumble Rants um over on our Rumble stream and I’m going to see if I can actually share it because this is important uh it’s very exciting for me and I’m sure it’s very exciting for matthew just going to pull this up here so I can make sure to thank you we’ve got Kevin McCairn PhD has dropped us a 20 dollar Rumble Rant he says support the stream folks keep the computers on this knowledge is golden beers on me gents which is just so kind and then that was followed up by stelena 76 another 20 dollar Rumble Rant who said agree with Dr. K, support the truth seekers and tellers so thank you both so much uh I think as content creators everyone on the stage understands the importance of of independent support and community um well yeah community support so just want to take the moment and thank both of them very much for that.

Um, you know what’s interesting about that is that Kevin McCairn is somebody that I I’ve thought about inviting on to uh as a guest for one of our discussions at some point in time and uh and Jonathan if I understand correctly you can you can hook us up with him right like make it make an introduction also Charles can yes absolutely we’re both friends with him so that’s no problem got it um well okay let’s uh let’s aim for a cutoff point let’s see if like there’s so much conversation to have right with the story um I I didn’t know that we were going to go in the directions we did I’ve learned a ton especially in the last half hour um but uh let’s pick them a point here um some things that would tie up the direction that we’ve gone today or the directions that we’ve gone um and uh and then we’ll you know we’ll close things off for our viewers um but hey I think that we’re gonna have to come back and do this again uh because there are so many threads and I think that that uh collectively we’ll be able to tie some more of those together as we go but uh Charles uh I’ll I’ll pass the baton to you uh so I guess one thing if we’re going to try to put all this stuff together what we need to understand is that whatever happened in Wuhan in 2019 in december 2019 or whatever to me I see this as there’s two major concerns one is what happened in Wuhan and then two is what happened in our response to what happened in Wuhan because it’s completely believable to me to think that whether it’s whatever they were researching a bio weapon or just some virus whatever that was they were doing in Wuhan it’s it’s understandable that it could leak or was on purpose that’s one part of it what concerns me as an american is what happened after that because as we’ve talked about today we talked about the vaccines the fusion inhibitors and basically in every single case everything that we’ve done has been antithetical to everything that we had been doing in the research for over previous decades and with the fact that tony Fauci has been basically the world leader in biomedical research there was a lot of people just following in our stead because that’s what we were doing and that entire discussion more than anything has been what’s been censored and so for me my first part of my research into the origin was all based on censorship and it’s kind of converging in this area and then the vaccine concerns have been converging in this area in this area and the antivirals and all these different things are converging into one main point which is there was this virus in in the quasi species and where did it come from and then why did we do what we did in response to it and I I think if we knew we’re getting really really close and it’s because all of this stuff is converging there’s like consilience as you know brett weinstein or other people would say everything that we’re finding is pointing to the same track which is why jonathan and I we’ve been working on similar on parts of this and none of it has been disproven because all of it is leading directly into the same place and so that’s why I feel confident in where we are now that’s why I think other other scientists and and leaders around us are feeling confident too because I think we’re heading in the right direction and it’s scary but at the same time it’s it’s motivating because it means that we’re starting to ask the right questions and starting to get answers to those questions and so that that gives me a lot of optimism so jonathan before I pass the baton to you um uh what Charles is doing is he’s making an epistemological point um this question that he’s that he’s focusing back on is why did we do what we did and what that is to say is he’s not just researching down a path of what all happened which he’s done for some crazy number of hours now some some thousands of hours now um it’s not just that he’s doing this research it’s that whatever the knowledge framework is that he’s put together all the information that we’ve discussed today and that we haven’t discussed today because there’s so much of it um points at at a question to ask that is such an important question to ask and that is why did our sphere of governance behave and operate the way that it did as opposed to some other way that seems to have been more logical to the facts if it were a matter of you know what we thought was the course of our society perhaps but maybe the question is simply even broader than that that we can’t even ask it in one way we just have to be asking it so now jonathan I’ll pass to you wow that’s so that threw me for a loop there um the thing that that I think that that you brought up earlier and that I would just like to emphasize to everybody is that the the way that they are currently purporting to molecularly describe the pandemic is disingenuous so they’re using pcr and they’ve changed the the standard of pcr if you look into it more more thoroughly you will see that they’re not testing for the spike protein anymore they’re testing for two different epitopes of the end and an epitope on the RNA-dependent RNA polymerase but what that means is that they have a target and that the pcr can amplify in some people they haven’t shown you at all except for the FDA has some documents apparently describing how they’re specific for this coronavirus and not for any of the others that we know are around which is what I talked about at the beginning and so the the important thing to see there then is is that that line of products is still going strong and their use of those products is unprecedented we’ve never used a diagnostic of this nature to immediately identify a case of a disease without the requirement of symptoms before with the exception of hiv and aids and so I think that’s the main sort of message that we started out from the beginning was that they have bamboozled you into thinking that before 2020 nobody was dying of something that now a lot of people are dying from and so they’ve shuffled around the way you think about all-cause mortality and the way you think about coronaviruses in the background of your life and uh that bamboozlement has enabled them to roll out all of these different products en masse and they seem to be continuing to push the same brittle narrative under the idea that they can keep pushing these products and that’s that’s the best that I can see it um that’s the least pessimistic way that I can see it at this stage yep all right uh there’s no way to wrap up a conversation like this so um let’s just go ahead and say uh we’re going to try to do this again and and maybe we’ll uh our knowledge will come together and I’ve got some threads that I want to research myself if I’ve got time outside of my own projects but uh um thanks guys for for coming and talking with us um you know it’s it’s always a pleasure to talk with you um you know this is a waiting conversation and um you know thanks for sharing all the work that you’ve done because it’s you know for anybody who’s watching you know these two guys have spent you know probably more than 10,000 hours you know between them uh trying to track down very specific pieces uh of important pieces of all that’s gone on uh since since we first heard things and I’m just going to mention uh Jonathan, Charles uh

Yesterday I talked with Leo Biddle and you may want to watch that interview because he has his own interesting vector of information uh you know running his orangutan sanctuary in Borneo. He was hearing about things in october and october 18th was when the the military game started in Wuhan so uh he’s actually going back to check his email to see if he had you know some kind of uh advanced warning of this so anyway I just wanted to throw that out because it came to line but um you know let’s go ahead and wrap things up so and jay and Charles can you uh tell the audience how can folks support your guys’s work how can they support DRASTIC uh um and before you answer that I’ve pulled up which is Jay’s site and I’ve also pulled up the Twitch stream which I’ve been tuning into regularly as of late and uh it is it is some of the most interesting uh uh discussion and analysis on exactly what we’ve been talking about that I’ve that I’ve seen in a while so is there anything jay in addition to what I’ve shown here that people could do to tune in and support you that’s the best way if people can share that that would be great thanks a lot for putting that up there of course and how about you Charles uh I’ve been rather busy the past month moving and packing and everything but um typically everything I do runs through uh my sub stack so just prometheus shrug prometheus because there they can uh I like to say I don’t I don’t you don’t have to pay to to subscribe but you can donate through subscription or or through paypal and all that stuff is on uh on my sub stack but basically everything I do is there or just on twitter itself fantastic I’m just pulling it up to make sure people can see it and know what to look for this is prometheus at Charles rixie on twitter gentlemen thank you so much and um I agree with matthew can’t wait to have you back on again and look at that we’re actually finishing seven minutes ahead of schedule which is another first for today well I can get to you it’s not because we finished laying out our stuff but just uh because we picked a smart time to to pause because we can literally talk here for for two weeks without stopping and there’s still be more to talk about I completely agree okay j Charles thank you again um yeah I mean matthew that was uh again I wrote down a lot of notes um a lot of times in these episodes um thankfully I’ve had the chance to learn uh and and speak in advance to a lot of our guests uh but this time there were so many really um specifically academic things that I hadn’t heard before that I’m now going to uh look into more um I assume it’s a case with you yeah and uh you know one thing I realized is uh is uh I in 2020 I was keeping up with what was going on in China a bit um but uh hearing uh jonathan talk now I realized it’s been months since I’ve really updated my you know understanding of what’s going on in China particularly well uh whatever people have seen on the news with like the shanghai shutdown um I’m sure that we are getting a you know very small and chosen you know vector of view of what’s going on there but um we should be thinking about it China has very often been a laboratory of broader global authoritarian steps it yeah it feels that way it seems that way and if it hasn’t looked like it before people should be thinking about that question now not necessarily thinking hey what we’re told us China rivalry um I don’t think that that model of the world is correct and I haven’t thought it was correct for years and for anybody um you know who doesn’t know my prior past history I was an asian bond specialist and I even considered uh I was invited uh to move to China to to build a large flagship education program there um I’ve been paying attention uh and had many contacts there for many years um and it’s always felt to me like there was some sort of a corporate tie between the two nations that that wanted to make it appear more adversarial than not and I say that so that people will chew on it you know digest it think about what that means and then try to look toward China see what information we can get it’s hard with the great firewall yes I think that’s I think that’s the true purpose of it is not to uh keep people in China from finding out that people in the west you know had different I don’t know television video games blue jeans uh it’s not like the old cold war era I I think that more than anything it’s to contain what’s going on in the laboratory I think you’re right it’s good to have something to digest on for the next week well folks um we’ll be back this friday for the rounding the news weekly news update and in the meantime uh the best way to support the show in addition to these wonderful Rumble Rants we’ve had today which once again thank you very much um you can also visit the sponsor and partner page of the rounding the earth sub stack that link is already in the description if I’m not mistaken and of course the absolute best way to support rounding the earth is to become a paid subscriber to the newsletter uh if you are already a free subscriber consider upgrading to paid uh I said this a number of times now there’s some very interesting bitcoin insight uh that’s that’s all I can say about that but there’s privileges for the paid members but beyond that you being here today folks and watching this uh is what makes this worthwhile it’s what makes this uh important because I’ll say we have 88 people watching right now live on Rumble that is by far the most people we’ve ever had tune in to a live uh session like this we’ve also had a pretty healthy uh we hit up to 20 on youtube which seems small but just think about that many people in a room and engaging with them in real life and then all of a sudden uh the the reality of that many people becomes much more times as many people watching on Rumble as YouTube that’s interesting and you know I’m happy behind the scenes we we knew that we would want Rumble uh to be sort of where we send people because unfortunately youtube is not a platform we have long-term confidence in and you know we haven’t been struck so far and frankly I’m thankful for that but what a good start to have four times as many people on Rumble as YouTube that’s just amazing okay let’s wrap it up there thank you so much folks uh I have been Liam Sturgess you can find me or at the liam sturgis on twitter rounding the earth is at edu engineer on twitter and that’ll be enough plugs for the day we will see you on friday.